I agree with everything you’re saying about how horrible his arrest and possible deportation are, but I think your overstating the case about how there no evidence he supports Hamas. The group he was a leader in, CUAD, has unambiguously posted in support of Hamas many times. That’s not a guarantee of his personal beliefs, it may be that he is just protesting Israel and accepts a wide tent because of how important that is to him. But I do feel for intellectual honesty it should be mentioned and complicated that narrative a bit.
EDIT: Also, I do think many pro-Israel people call all pro-Palestinian supporters pro-Hamas. I’ve been called that many times, so I get the impulse to just ignore the accusations.
I would be happy to look at the CUAD postings but I don't know where to find them. You are the first person that has said something concrete as to his individual support for Hamas. The business about from the River to the Sea meaning destruction of Israel or all Israeli people I reject and so do many people who use it. This is a short comment not a long soliloquy. So thanks Sam for the concreteness. There is no evidence that in his role in the protests he said pro-Hamas stuff at all or that he circulated pro Hamas propaganda which is stuff coming from Trump and all those willing to repeat and swallow it without doubting. I also get from what Sam is saying that even in the case that he the Cuad postings reflected his individual views, which is an open question, it doesnt merit what is happening to him. On th other matter in Shad Hamids post I do care about the loss of jobs and services because poor people in this country will suffer the most from the lost of pubic services, and that surely includes immigrants to say the least.
The first link includes a direct quote from their ralley on Oct 7, 2024 — “October 7, 2023 was a monumental step in the popular delegitimization of the Zionist entity, backed by over 75 years of consistent struggle and resistance to this Zionist monstrosity. The act of Palestinian resistance on October 7, known as the Al-Aqsa Flood, breached Israeli security and made significant military advances. [This is] a day that will go down in history. A day [in which] Palestinians took it upon themselves to break down their prison fence and open Gaza to the rest of Palestine.”
I agree with you about the overuse of pro-Israel people calling things pro-Hamas or anti-Semitic. From the river to the sea is a great example of that and I understand why the accusation has lost a lot of weight. Unfortunately, the label still does apply to some originazations, and CUAD is one.
How to disentangle his views from CUAD is a tough question and I don’t have an answer, but I feel like CUADs stance has to be mentioned.
I suppose that is why they are relying on the much more vague and dystopian language around "leading activities aligned to Hamas": Khalil did not express support Hamas, but the people around him did.
Beyond the question of if he is liable for actions of those around him given his role within CUAD, I am not convinced we should assume he necessarily shares all their positions. In the second post you shared, CAUD also expresses support for Axis of Resistance groups. Given Khalil's past work for the UK's Syria office in Lebanon I highly doubt that he is supportive of those as well. Interestingly, there are some pro-Palestine accounts online accusing him of being a regime change collaborator because of that.
Thanks for the second paragraph — I didn’t know that.
I know everyone has their personal biases and issues, and one thing that’s bothers me (especially as someone who just left college campuses) is how completely insane a lot of the pro-Palestinian campus groups are in their support for Hamas etc, while everyone ignores that. I think it’s kinda a result of internal dynamics where everyone wants to be seen as the most radical and then they write the official positions for those groups, even if most of the support is positive pro-Palestinian sentiment — and these groups are just the only ones expressing that.
Anyways, I just wish that if some the leaders of these groups don’t share those views they would speak out against them, because otherwise the only ones speaking about Hamas are the people who are pro. I can kinda understand if that’s not their priorities, but still sad/upsetting to me.
That’s completely fair, and it’s a really counter-productive dynamic. I share the impression that support for Hamas in the broader movement is actually quite fringe, but that it’s over-represented among visible groups and voices. It’s hard to speak out against this while the cause is so urgent, but it’s really important (morally and pragmatically) that people do.
As Mao puts it, guerillas are like fish and people are water. You can only swim in that water through broad and popular support. Condemning the palestinian resistance is just a roundabout road to condoning the genocide. Eventually you have to face that Hamas (and the national unity front led by Hamas) is a popular national liberation movement, deeply woven into Palestinian life and far more popular than any other faction on the table. Consider the months of unending misery, deprivation, and fear slaughtered onto the whole people - none of it is enough to convince the broad mass of Palestinians to forfeit the right of resistance and give up their arms.
Khalil is a one state solution “jews and arabs in peace ❤️” type of person. I disagree with that stance and have a position which is far more hostile to Israel - but the fundamental political issue was the university support of the genocide and that unifies all factions to one mission and excludes all partisan wreckers. The man has literally been shot at by the IDF. He is in patriotic solidarity with his people - his family and blood faced against an open ended war of extermination. And you want to nitpick over who he gets in bed with to disrupt his community’s complicity and participation in those exact crimes? We should interrogate the details to see if he should be deported because he tries to upend the extermination of his own blood? This is not proper at all. It doesn't complicate the narrative at all. All of this is simple.
First of all, getting in bed with Hamas and supporting October 7th and the slaughter of innocent Israelis is not "nitpicking to me" and will always be important to me.
I'm glad to hear that about Khalil and I wish that he would be more vocal about it instead of keeping quiet and letting others in his group put out statements for the group. I understand him allying with them even if he disagrees, even if I am disapointed about it.
Thats besides the fact that I think Hamas (and the support for it among the american pro-palestinian movement) is extremely horrible for the safety and security of Palestinians. One of the horrible things about Oct 7th was the fact that Hamas knew it would lead to the deaths of many Palestinians and they didn't care. There is some support for Hamas in Gaza, but theres also a lot of oppisition that you can see in the protests. Regardless, I'm not going to pawn off my moral thinking to anyone else.
I do not have Khalil's position, to the best of my knowledge, and I certainly do not need to mince words to avoid deportation. Therefore, I disagree with everything about your position.
Every colonial war in human history has required the occupied population to take on inordinately higher losses than their opponent, the colonizer. "Give me liberty or give me death" - you cannot back someone into a corner when they have nothing left to lose.
The protests were very small, many sympathiszed with their undeniable human interest but there was also widespread denouncement for breaking national unity while under the pressure of genocide. The only force holding the sky up against the genocide are the means of Palestinian resistance, which requires the steadfast unity of the people. The population remains largely steadfast behind the forces of resistance. This idea that Hamas is a weak and corrupt dictatorship alien to the people's interests is part of the genocidal propaganda and people like you believing the scam is part of how the genocide continues. Israel has made clear that a failure of resistance means their expulsion from Gaza - or worse.
I support Hamas and the right of Palestinian people fashioning means of armed struggle and means of class terror. What is horrible for Palestinian safety is the occupation. The only thing which can escape the occupation is Palestinian sovereignty. There is no Palestinian sovereignty without (1) Palestinian guns (2) A strategic decay of Israel's position. Hamas has agreed to disarm and hand control to a national unity government. The genocide continues because Israel is teriffied of sovereign Palestinians, and perhaps they have a right to be scared, given what horrible abuses they have injected onto the land expelling their people and rounding them up in ghettos. It's a violent colonial state and it must be put under increasing pressure until it fractures.
I think moving beyond our moral disagreements, which we probably won't see eye to eye on, I think our biggest disagreements is just our basic understanding of the world and of reality.
The first area is your analysis of Hamas's military strength. You claim is that "the only force holding the sky up against the genocide are the means of Palestinian resistance" -- which I think is clearly not true. Israel has essentially completely militarily defeated Hamas, which cannot protect Palestinian civilians at all. Especially in regards to air strikes, Israel has the capability to kill everyone in Gaza and Hamas is not doing anything about it.
The second is your analysis of Israel. You say "it's a violent colonial state and it must be put under increasing pressure until it fractures." Rashid Khalidi discusses this theory in the 100 Years War on Palestine, that if Palestinians put enough pressure on the civilian population of Israel they will leave, like the British. However he points out (whether or not you think this is justified), Israelis don't see themselves as colonists in the same way the British did, and similar to 9/11 these attacks have not cause Israelis to fractiure and to leave but instead to become more entrenched, patriotic, right wing, and aggressive in attacking Palestine. We saw this with the second intifada as well, which was a complete strategic failure.
Lastly, you claim that the protests where small and the vast majority of Gazans support Hamas. Here I am much less confident in my views you may be right, but I follow Palestinian journalists on twitter who did not present the protests that way. They said from thierpersonal experience that the discontent with Hamas is widespread, mostly due to them starting a war and not being able to defend Gaza. Obviously its always hard to know the general sentiment of a large popultion, but I'm inclined to believe those journalists.
If Israel had defeated Hamas the hostages would be free. If that changes the analysis changes. But it hasn't change so the analysis remains. Killing people is not a strategy. Killing people is a tactic. Hamas knew at the onset of this war that it could not stop genocidal massacres. So be it. So be it. Tjis is true in every colonial war. Every single one. What does killing accomplish? Not much. Hamas has grown their membership since the beginning of the war. It is easy to understand why.
You do not understand the strategic dimensions. Before, Israel maintained apartheid out of sight and out of mind. Now that security is broken, spurring massive unrest. Not only has that broken, they have reacted with psychotic mass slaughter. Their face is exposed. Palestine is back on the map. In the coming decades, sanctions and embargos will spread. Immigration to Israel is down. Investment to Israel is down. The wonderland is broken. Hamas has more members than ever, endless recruits. Palestinian resistance will exist for as long as there are Palestinians. Israel can only exist while it is a worthwhile investment to colonial backers - e.g. America. In the long term, the zionist project is not a smart investment. This is part of your misread of the second intifada as well.
And regarding the colonialism of Zionism - nobody ever sees themselves as the colonists, they always have a reason. They always have an excuse and justification. Always. Everyone wants to be david, nobody wants to be Goliath - thats how America the largesti mlitary power in human history, made Halo: Comat Evolved. Then humanity fighrs aliens, and Americans can imagine being david. Within months of the release of thsi game we began slaughtering scores of Muslims in shit hole countries. Goliath has to imagine that they are david
Finally, you must understand that in all societies based upon unity and discipline, there is inevitably a liberal fifth column promoting unrest. The enemy has made clear they want no deals, no negotiations, nothing beyond mass murder as an end unto itself. They have made clear the war would continue if the prisoners of war (IDF SOLDIERS) were released. They have made clear the Palestinians will be expelled if arms are laid down. There is no negotiations, those involved in the protests are fools, and it is easy to see whh once the facts are laid out - and Palestinians know these facts. It is not hard to know at all. Believe your own brain. Follow a chain of logic - It's liberty or death.
If supporting the IDF doesn't get you deported then supporting Hamas shouldn't get you deported. In fact supporting the IDF is atrocious while supporting Hamas is sensible. All of this is a basic feature of marxism, and thus the assault on alleged terrorism is an assault on working class interests and worker solidarity.
I agree 100% he shouldn't be deported despite my opposition to some of the positions his groups supports. Deportation based on speech is horrible, and antithetical to american free speech principles.
As a practical matter, people who have green cards and whose wives are very, very pregnant are poorly served carrying water for terrorists. There is ample evidence Khalil is a Hamas supporter, based on statements from his group and literature he has distributed. It bears mentioning that Hamas has the support of 80% of the Gazan civilian population. The Bibas family was kidnapped by Palestinians civilians, not Hamas. They were murdered in Gaza, possibly at the hands of civilians. No telling who in Gaza beat and strangled the Bibas children, but the likelihood that many people were involved is quite high. When Americans take care to point out that they support Palestinians v. Hamas, they need to devote some time and care to what exactly that means. Whether or not there is a legal basis to Khalil's arrest is less worrisome for me--the courts will sort this out and are already engaged in this debate, his deportation having been stayed--than the left's nearly unequivocal support of these protests and Khalil in particular. He's a vile human being. And there is nothing wrong with tailoring our immigration policies to favor those who share our values and who love our country. Khalil may have a green card, but should he be given the privilege of full citizenship while Indians who are needed for their tech skills, for example, are denied under the diversity lottery? It's very hard to support Palestinians in Gaza when as a population their support for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews is near universal. There's a sizeable Palestinian majority in the Hashemite Dynasty of Jordan. Perhaps the Palestinians currently living in Gaza, Judea and Sameria should go there.
You know that Palestinians in the West Bank were actually Jordanian citizens until Israel took over and decided they weren't, right?
What is this evidence you speak of, anyway? Did he actually support Hamas or is this one of those instances where saying "Free Palestine" or "From the river to the sea" is construed as antisemitic/Hamas support?
The evidence is Khalil is a leadership member of CUAD and CUAD has circulated Hamas propaganda. Also chanting “from the river to the sea” is a call for the destruction of Israel. Full stop. What exactly does “free Palestine” mean to you?
From the river to the sea means the Palestinian people should be free to return to their homes, the homes they lost when the Jews arrived back and kicked them to the curb, and continue to hold them in chains.
Which homes? How far back does this go, generations, or only as far back as Arafat? The "history of the Palestinian people" is incredibly short. The region has been called Palestine for millenia, but the idea that Palestinian Arabs were distinctly entitled to a dedicated homeland in parts of what is now Israel is relatively new. Many of the displaced became so after the 6 Day War, when Israel claimed Gaza, Judea and Samaria. People displaced by war is nothing new. My ancestors were expelled from their homeland more than 100 years ago. And my ancestors were subjected to an actual and well-documented genocide. That is not the case with Palestinians living in occupied territories. No attempt at a two-state solution has succeeded because the terrorists put in charge by the Palestinian people have rejected the proposals. Very hard for Israel to agree to any two-state solution when such an agreement is predicated on one side--Palestinians--openly seeking the destruction of the other. I've yet to hear anyone advocating the Palestinian cause, especially since Oct. 7, claim that all Palestinians want is to live in peace. We saw on Oct 7 what they want--to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. Khalil is here on a green card. He is not entitled to the same freedoms as full citizens. There is ample evidence his involvement with CUAD involved supporting Hamas and seeking the destruction of Jews and Israel.
Just to say it, I'm Jewish, support Israel's right to exist, and am appalled by Mr. Trump's actions against Mr. Khalil.
I really dislike the word "terrorist," because it has been mis-applied and degraded to the point of meaninglessness, but it could be reasonably defined as one who commits acts designed to incite widespread fear, for a political aim. I don't think Khalil could reasonably be termed a terrorist, but the Hamas act of 7 October was indeed a terrorist attack. More importantly for the US, the airplane attacks of Sept 11 2001 were terrorist acts that had huge and lasting impact. In both cases, the response was objectively disproportionate, but subjectively understandable.
Like you, I strongly support liberal democracy, but I think "liberal" and "democracy often conflict with each other, and unlike you, I feel more loyalty for a liberal framework than for democracy per se.
Most of the woke repressive playbook long predates wokeism itself and originates with the Israel Lobby. The repurposing went the other way. Moreover, people who invent and disseminate obscene excuses to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent people have no moral standing to condemn someone for “expressing sympathy” for Hamas, whatever that may mean. A plague on both their houses.
Be careful who you call a vile human being. Palestinians in Gaza were slaughtered, their civilization destroyed by Israelis who were bent on their destruction. You have it backwards. I am not sure where you should go, but I don't think you have a place in this discussion. If my people were being massacred and their homes and schools and hospitals destroyed I certainly would be at the forefront of protest. That he was willing to put himself out and be public shows his moral courage. God bless him, his wife and their child. Justice belongs to our Creator. Israel uses this same tired excuse to do to the other exactly what they accuse them of intending. Israel sits pretty while the Gazans suffer. And what was done to the Palestinian children has been witnessed by heaven, and it is absolutely vile. I am a teacher, an observant Jew, and I decry your remarks as vile.
devastating conflict; with 2 rather firm "fan bases" -- like Ultra Fans from (European) football clubs.
It was utterly unwise from the international community to not insisting on real & increasing efforts to solving it any earlier. As long as 1 side is rich & strong & in proper statehood vs 1 side weak & poor (sorry) and with -- nothing -- apart from soil -- that is shrinking -- like water supply, too...there cannot be peace. It would be the same fight everywhere. Terror must emerge at some stage, inevitably.
The longer the askew development / discrimination / chicanery / provocation / despair, the more abhorrent the terror; sure.
But it did not start with terror; well, at least not with terror from palestinians.
1 Side started to throw the other side out of territory; and this side; who started; shall reach the hand; in a way so that peace can emerge => in a way so that 2 folks can live in safety, liberty, dignity, prosperity.
And pls never call me an enemy of Judaism or Jews.
'Without it, all we have is brute power and coercion. '
Sorry, but to us Canadians, brute power and coercion is all we're experiencing from the USA right now. Nothing else. And if the result of your election is indeed legitimate, then what that is telling us north of the border is that the majority of Americans are okay with Trump's project to annex our country by 'economic force' (his words).
As someone who is not American and does not live there, I find this sort of hand wringing depressing. The Democrats have their problems but only fools will keep pushing the narrative that the Democrats are the same as the bucket of manure now in power. And this is no longer about the dehumanisation of Arabs and Palestinians, which is real, but about a bunch of criminals intent on staying in power for ever. The dehumanisation in progress is much worse than that of one or two groups of people. But between those who couldn’t vote for a woman, or for a person of colour, or for a woman of colour, or for someone too close to big money and those just too lazy to go out and vote, ‘here we are’ indeed.
I agree with everything you’re saying about how horrible his arrest and possible deportation are, but I think your overstating the case about how there no evidence he supports Hamas. The group he was a leader in, CUAD, has unambiguously posted in support of Hamas many times. That’s not a guarantee of his personal beliefs, it may be that he is just protesting Israel and accepts a wide tent because of how important that is to him. But I do feel for intellectual honesty it should be mentioned and complicated that narrative a bit.
EDIT: Also, I do think many pro-Israel people call all pro-Palestinian supporters pro-Hamas. I’ve been called that many times, so I get the impulse to just ignore the accusations.
I would be happy to look at the CUAD postings but I don't know where to find them. You are the first person that has said something concrete as to his individual support for Hamas. The business about from the River to the Sea meaning destruction of Israel or all Israeli people I reject and so do many people who use it. This is a short comment not a long soliloquy. So thanks Sam for the concreteness. There is no evidence that in his role in the protests he said pro-Hamas stuff at all or that he circulated pro Hamas propaganda which is stuff coming from Trump and all those willing to repeat and swallow it without doubting. I also get from what Sam is saying that even in the case that he the Cuad postings reflected his individual views, which is an open question, it doesnt merit what is happening to him. On th other matter in Shad Hamids post I do care about the loss of jobs and services because poor people in this country will suffer the most from the lost of pubic services, and that surely includes immigrants to say the least.
Here’s two examples from their Substack:
https://open.substack.com/pub/cuapartheiddivest/p/commemorating-al-aqsa-flood-honoring?r=5m0mf&utm_medium=ios
https://open.substack.com/pub/cuapartheiddivest/p/cuad-remains-committed-to-our-demands?r=5m0mf&utm_medium=ios
The first link includes a direct quote from their ralley on Oct 7, 2024 — “October 7, 2023 was a monumental step in the popular delegitimization of the Zionist entity, backed by over 75 years of consistent struggle and resistance to this Zionist monstrosity. The act of Palestinian resistance on October 7, known as the Al-Aqsa Flood, breached Israeli security and made significant military advances. [This is] a day that will go down in history. A day [in which] Palestinians took it upon themselves to break down their prison fence and open Gaza to the rest of Palestine.”
I agree with you about the overuse of pro-Israel people calling things pro-Hamas or anti-Semitic. From the river to the sea is a great example of that and I understand why the accusation has lost a lot of weight. Unfortunately, the label still does apply to some originazations, and CUAD is one.
How to disentangle his views from CUAD is a tough question and I don’t have an answer, but I feel like CUADs stance has to be mentioned.
Thanks for sharing these, Sam!
I suppose that is why they are relying on the much more vague and dystopian language around "leading activities aligned to Hamas": Khalil did not express support Hamas, but the people around him did.
Beyond the question of if he is liable for actions of those around him given his role within CUAD, I am not convinced we should assume he necessarily shares all their positions. In the second post you shared, CAUD also expresses support for Axis of Resistance groups. Given Khalil's past work for the UK's Syria office in Lebanon I highly doubt that he is supportive of those as well. Interestingly, there are some pro-Palestine accounts online accusing him of being a regime change collaborator because of that.
Thanks for the second paragraph — I didn’t know that.
I know everyone has their personal biases and issues, and one thing that’s bothers me (especially as someone who just left college campuses) is how completely insane a lot of the pro-Palestinian campus groups are in their support for Hamas etc, while everyone ignores that. I think it’s kinda a result of internal dynamics where everyone wants to be seen as the most radical and then they write the official positions for those groups, even if most of the support is positive pro-Palestinian sentiment — and these groups are just the only ones expressing that.
Anyways, I just wish that if some the leaders of these groups don’t share those views they would speak out against them, because otherwise the only ones speaking about Hamas are the people who are pro. I can kinda understand if that’s not their priorities, but still sad/upsetting to me.
That’s completely fair, and it’s a really counter-productive dynamic. I share the impression that support for Hamas in the broader movement is actually quite fringe, but that it’s over-represented among visible groups and voices. It’s hard to speak out against this while the cause is so urgent, but it’s really important (morally and pragmatically) that people do.
As Mao puts it, guerillas are like fish and people are water. You can only swim in that water through broad and popular support. Condemning the palestinian resistance is just a roundabout road to condoning the genocide. Eventually you have to face that Hamas (and the national unity front led by Hamas) is a popular national liberation movement, deeply woven into Palestinian life and far more popular than any other faction on the table. Consider the months of unending misery, deprivation, and fear slaughtered onto the whole people - none of it is enough to convince the broad mass of Palestinians to forfeit the right of resistance and give up their arms.
Khalil is a one state solution “jews and arabs in peace ❤️” type of person. I disagree with that stance and have a position which is far more hostile to Israel - but the fundamental political issue was the university support of the genocide and that unifies all factions to one mission and excludes all partisan wreckers. The man has literally been shot at by the IDF. He is in patriotic solidarity with his people - his family and blood faced against an open ended war of extermination. And you want to nitpick over who he gets in bed with to disrupt his community’s complicity and participation in those exact crimes? We should interrogate the details to see if he should be deported because he tries to upend the extermination of his own blood? This is not proper at all. It doesn't complicate the narrative at all. All of this is simple.
First of all, getting in bed with Hamas and supporting October 7th and the slaughter of innocent Israelis is not "nitpicking to me" and will always be important to me.
I'm glad to hear that about Khalil and I wish that he would be more vocal about it instead of keeping quiet and letting others in his group put out statements for the group. I understand him allying with them even if he disagrees, even if I am disapointed about it.
Thats besides the fact that I think Hamas (and the support for it among the american pro-palestinian movement) is extremely horrible for the safety and security of Palestinians. One of the horrible things about Oct 7th was the fact that Hamas knew it would lead to the deaths of many Palestinians and they didn't care. There is some support for Hamas in Gaza, but theres also a lot of oppisition that you can see in the protests. Regardless, I'm not going to pawn off my moral thinking to anyone else.
I do not have Khalil's position, to the best of my knowledge, and I certainly do not need to mince words to avoid deportation. Therefore, I disagree with everything about your position.
Every colonial war in human history has required the occupied population to take on inordinately higher losses than their opponent, the colonizer. "Give me liberty or give me death" - you cannot back someone into a corner when they have nothing left to lose.
The protests were very small, many sympathiszed with their undeniable human interest but there was also widespread denouncement for breaking national unity while under the pressure of genocide. The only force holding the sky up against the genocide are the means of Palestinian resistance, which requires the steadfast unity of the people. The population remains largely steadfast behind the forces of resistance. This idea that Hamas is a weak and corrupt dictatorship alien to the people's interests is part of the genocidal propaganda and people like you believing the scam is part of how the genocide continues. Israel has made clear that a failure of resistance means their expulsion from Gaza - or worse.
I support Hamas and the right of Palestinian people fashioning means of armed struggle and means of class terror. What is horrible for Palestinian safety is the occupation. The only thing which can escape the occupation is Palestinian sovereignty. There is no Palestinian sovereignty without (1) Palestinian guns (2) A strategic decay of Israel's position. Hamas has agreed to disarm and hand control to a national unity government. The genocide continues because Israel is teriffied of sovereign Palestinians, and perhaps they have a right to be scared, given what horrible abuses they have injected onto the land expelling their people and rounding them up in ghettos. It's a violent colonial state and it must be put under increasing pressure until it fractures.
I think moving beyond our moral disagreements, which we probably won't see eye to eye on, I think our biggest disagreements is just our basic understanding of the world and of reality.
The first area is your analysis of Hamas's military strength. You claim is that "the only force holding the sky up against the genocide are the means of Palestinian resistance" -- which I think is clearly not true. Israel has essentially completely militarily defeated Hamas, which cannot protect Palestinian civilians at all. Especially in regards to air strikes, Israel has the capability to kill everyone in Gaza and Hamas is not doing anything about it.
The second is your analysis of Israel. You say "it's a violent colonial state and it must be put under increasing pressure until it fractures." Rashid Khalidi discusses this theory in the 100 Years War on Palestine, that if Palestinians put enough pressure on the civilian population of Israel they will leave, like the British. However he points out (whether or not you think this is justified), Israelis don't see themselves as colonists in the same way the British did, and similar to 9/11 these attacks have not cause Israelis to fractiure and to leave but instead to become more entrenched, patriotic, right wing, and aggressive in attacking Palestine. We saw this with the second intifada as well, which was a complete strategic failure.
Lastly, you claim that the protests where small and the vast majority of Gazans support Hamas. Here I am much less confident in my views you may be right, but I follow Palestinian journalists on twitter who did not present the protests that way. They said from thierpersonal experience that the discontent with Hamas is widespread, mostly due to them starting a war and not being able to defend Gaza. Obviously its always hard to know the general sentiment of a large popultion, but I'm inclined to believe those journalists.
If Israel had defeated Hamas the hostages would be free. If that changes the analysis changes. But it hasn't change so the analysis remains. Killing people is not a strategy. Killing people is a tactic. Hamas knew at the onset of this war that it could not stop genocidal massacres. So be it. So be it. Tjis is true in every colonial war. Every single one. What does killing accomplish? Not much. Hamas has grown their membership since the beginning of the war. It is easy to understand why.
You do not understand the strategic dimensions. Before, Israel maintained apartheid out of sight and out of mind. Now that security is broken, spurring massive unrest. Not only has that broken, they have reacted with psychotic mass slaughter. Their face is exposed. Palestine is back on the map. In the coming decades, sanctions and embargos will spread. Immigration to Israel is down. Investment to Israel is down. The wonderland is broken. Hamas has more members than ever, endless recruits. Palestinian resistance will exist for as long as there are Palestinians. Israel can only exist while it is a worthwhile investment to colonial backers - e.g. America. In the long term, the zionist project is not a smart investment. This is part of your misread of the second intifada as well.
And regarding the colonialism of Zionism - nobody ever sees themselves as the colonists, they always have a reason. They always have an excuse and justification. Always. Everyone wants to be david, nobody wants to be Goliath - thats how America the largesti mlitary power in human history, made Halo: Comat Evolved. Then humanity fighrs aliens, and Americans can imagine being david. Within months of the release of thsi game we began slaughtering scores of Muslims in shit hole countries. Goliath has to imagine that they are david
Finally, you must understand that in all societies based upon unity and discipline, there is inevitably a liberal fifth column promoting unrest. The enemy has made clear they want no deals, no negotiations, nothing beyond mass murder as an end unto itself. They have made clear the war would continue if the prisoners of war (IDF SOLDIERS) were released. They have made clear the Palestinians will be expelled if arms are laid down. There is no negotiations, those involved in the protests are fools, and it is easy to see whh once the facts are laid out - and Palestinians know these facts. It is not hard to know at all. Believe your own brain. Follow a chain of logic - It's liberty or death.
I mean not much to talk about. Thanks for the response but we live in different realities.
If supporting the IDF doesn't get you deported then supporting Hamas shouldn't get you deported. In fact supporting the IDF is atrocious while supporting Hamas is sensible. All of this is a basic feature of marxism, and thus the assault on alleged terrorism is an assault on working class interests and worker solidarity.
I agree 100% he shouldn't be deported despite my opposition to some of the positions his groups supports. Deportation based on speech is horrible, and antithetical to american free speech principles.
As a practical matter, people who have green cards and whose wives are very, very pregnant are poorly served carrying water for terrorists. There is ample evidence Khalil is a Hamas supporter, based on statements from his group and literature he has distributed. It bears mentioning that Hamas has the support of 80% of the Gazan civilian population. The Bibas family was kidnapped by Palestinians civilians, not Hamas. They were murdered in Gaza, possibly at the hands of civilians. No telling who in Gaza beat and strangled the Bibas children, but the likelihood that many people were involved is quite high. When Americans take care to point out that they support Palestinians v. Hamas, they need to devote some time and care to what exactly that means. Whether or not there is a legal basis to Khalil's arrest is less worrisome for me--the courts will sort this out and are already engaged in this debate, his deportation having been stayed--than the left's nearly unequivocal support of these protests and Khalil in particular. He's a vile human being. And there is nothing wrong with tailoring our immigration policies to favor those who share our values and who love our country. Khalil may have a green card, but should he be given the privilege of full citizenship while Indians who are needed for their tech skills, for example, are denied under the diversity lottery? It's very hard to support Palestinians in Gaza when as a population their support for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews is near universal. There's a sizeable Palestinian majority in the Hashemite Dynasty of Jordan. Perhaps the Palestinians currently living in Gaza, Judea and Sameria should go there.
The fact that it's not worrisome to you whether there's a legal basis for his arrest is, in itself, worrisome.
You’re not much of a close reader, are you, Ben?
You're not much of a deep thinker, are you, Donna?
Jordan? Really?
You know that Palestinians in the West Bank were actually Jordanian citizens until Israel took over and decided they weren't, right?
What is this evidence you speak of, anyway? Did he actually support Hamas or is this one of those instances where saying "Free Palestine" or "From the river to the sea" is construed as antisemitic/Hamas support?
The evidence is Khalil is a leadership member of CUAD and CUAD has circulated Hamas propaganda. Also chanting “from the river to the sea” is a call for the destruction of Israel. Full stop. What exactly does “free Palestine” mean to you?
From the river to the sea means the Palestinian people should be free to return to their homes, the homes they lost when the Jews arrived back and kicked them to the curb, and continue to hold them in chains.
Which homes? How far back does this go, generations, or only as far back as Arafat? The "history of the Palestinian people" is incredibly short. The region has been called Palestine for millenia, but the idea that Palestinian Arabs were distinctly entitled to a dedicated homeland in parts of what is now Israel is relatively new. Many of the displaced became so after the 6 Day War, when Israel claimed Gaza, Judea and Samaria. People displaced by war is nothing new. My ancestors were expelled from their homeland more than 100 years ago. And my ancestors were subjected to an actual and well-documented genocide. That is not the case with Palestinians living in occupied territories. No attempt at a two-state solution has succeeded because the terrorists put in charge by the Palestinian people have rejected the proposals. Very hard for Israel to agree to any two-state solution when such an agreement is predicated on one side--Palestinians--openly seeking the destruction of the other. I've yet to hear anyone advocating the Palestinian cause, especially since Oct. 7, claim that all Palestinians want is to live in peace. We saw on Oct 7 what they want--to kill all the Jews and destroy Israel. Khalil is here on a green card. He is not entitled to the same freedoms as full citizens. There is ample evidence his involvement with CUAD involved supporting Hamas and seeking the destruction of Jews and Israel.
Just to say it, I'm Jewish, support Israel's right to exist, and am appalled by Mr. Trump's actions against Mr. Khalil.
I really dislike the word "terrorist," because it has been mis-applied and degraded to the point of meaninglessness, but it could be reasonably defined as one who commits acts designed to incite widespread fear, for a political aim. I don't think Khalil could reasonably be termed a terrorist, but the Hamas act of 7 October was indeed a terrorist attack. More importantly for the US, the airplane attacks of Sept 11 2001 were terrorist acts that had huge and lasting impact. In both cases, the response was objectively disproportionate, but subjectively understandable.
Like you, I strongly support liberal democracy, but I think "liberal" and "democracy often conflict with each other, and unlike you, I feel more loyalty for a liberal framework than for democracy per se.
Most of the woke repressive playbook long predates wokeism itself and originates with the Israel Lobby. The repurposing went the other way. Moreover, people who invent and disseminate obscene excuses to justify the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent people have no moral standing to condemn someone for “expressing sympathy” for Hamas, whatever that may mean. A plague on both their houses.
Be careful who you call a vile human being. Palestinians in Gaza were slaughtered, their civilization destroyed by Israelis who were bent on their destruction. You have it backwards. I am not sure where you should go, but I don't think you have a place in this discussion. If my people were being massacred and their homes and schools and hospitals destroyed I certainly would be at the forefront of protest. That he was willing to put himself out and be public shows his moral courage. God bless him, his wife and their child. Justice belongs to our Creator. Israel uses this same tired excuse to do to the other exactly what they accuse them of intending. Israel sits pretty while the Gazans suffer. And what was done to the Palestinian children has been witnessed by heaven, and it is absolutely vile. I am a teacher, an observant Jew, and I decry your remarks as vile.
This is a state department issue, he violated his green card agreement he should be deported
devastating conflict; with 2 rather firm "fan bases" -- like Ultra Fans from (European) football clubs.
It was utterly unwise from the international community to not insisting on real & increasing efforts to solving it any earlier. As long as 1 side is rich & strong & in proper statehood vs 1 side weak & poor (sorry) and with -- nothing -- apart from soil -- that is shrinking -- like water supply, too...there cannot be peace. It would be the same fight everywhere. Terror must emerge at some stage, inevitably.
The longer the askew development / discrimination / chicanery / provocation / despair, the more abhorrent the terror; sure.
But it did not start with terror; well, at least not with terror from palestinians.
1 Side started to throw the other side out of territory; and this side; who started; shall reach the hand; in a way so that peace can emerge => in a way so that 2 folks can live in safety, liberty, dignity, prosperity.
And pls never call me an enemy of Judaism or Jews.
Don't !
'Without it, all we have is brute power and coercion. '
Sorry, but to us Canadians, brute power and coercion is all we're experiencing from the USA right now. Nothing else. And if the result of your election is indeed legitimate, then what that is telling us north of the border is that the majority of Americans are okay with Trump's project to annex our country by 'economic force' (his words).
As someone who is not American and does not live there, I find this sort of hand wringing depressing. The Democrats have their problems but only fools will keep pushing the narrative that the Democrats are the same as the bucket of manure now in power. And this is no longer about the dehumanisation of Arabs and Palestinians, which is real, but about a bunch of criminals intent on staying in power for ever. The dehumanisation in progress is much worse than that of one or two groups of people. But between those who couldn’t vote for a woman, or for a person of colour, or for a woman of colour, or for someone too close to big money and those just too lazy to go out and vote, ‘here we are’ indeed.