My Debate with Andrew Sullivan
On America's role in the world and a lot of other things
Last month, I went on Andrew Sullivan’s podcast to discuss my new book The Case For American Power. It was a fascinating two-hour long conversation with some big disagreements, including on the merits of U.S. interventionism and the role of morality in foreign policy. To have disagreements, even significant ones, might make us uncomfortable but it’s precisely what a good podcast should feature. We covered other ground, including the following, which is to say a lot:
Other topics: Shadi raised with a mixed identity (American/Muslim/Arab); both parents from Egypt where he spent summers; the reinvention of immigrants; the peace and prosperity of the ‘90s; our innocence shattered on 9/11; external and internal jihad; religion in public life; the Koran; blasphemy laws in the UK; Charles Taylor and the loss of enchantment; political cults like MAGA and SJW; Deneen and other post-liberals; Obama’s realism in the Mideast; the Arab Spring; Islam’s tension with liberalism; how Israel undermined Obama; the settlements; Gaza; Muslim views of women and gays in the West; the US intervening in Bosnia, Kosovo, and the Persian Gulf; oikophobia; elites opening up China and creating a rival; Taiwan; Russia after the USSR; the invasion of Georgia and Crimea; the Syrian war and refugee crisis; the war in Ukraine; Vance in Munich; and Trump’s pressure on NATO to arm itself.
Out of all the media I’ve done around the new book, this conversation was one of my favorites, if not the favorite. Thanks to Andrew for having me on. The first 50 minutes of the episode is available for free, below. For the full experience, subscribe to Andrew’s substack The Weekly Dish.
